Looking for joy? Then it might be worth exploring your sorrow, complications and mess. In his latest collection of essays, Inciting Joy, poet Ross Gay reconsiders the breadth of joy, arguing that it can be found – and even strengthened – in life's hardest moments, when we must rely on one another. This week, host Brittany Luse sits down with Gay to discuss the complexity of joy, the beauty of grace and creating meaning in life.

This episode of 'It's Been a Minute' was produced by Alexis Williams and Liam McBain. It was edited by Jessica Placzek. Engineering support came from Patrick Murray. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sangweni, and our senior VP of programming is Anya Grundmann.